6x6Talk Forum
6x6 Technical Questions => Clutch => Topic started by: JonathanF101185 on March 04, 2018, 12:18:02 PM
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Hello,
My name is Jonathan, forgive me for my ignorance as I just recently purchased a 1997 Max II with a couple year old 16hp Briggs V twin engine. I have new tires on the machine as well. I noticed it lacks power when trying to climb unless I have momentum. But when I roll up to a 4” step up or so, the machine doesn’t have the torque to climb. Is there an adjustment on the clutch to grab for more power, or is there another adjustment on the machine that can be done to help with this issue?
Also, the seal around the axles and body leaks a little as I am in the water. Could this be fixed without taking apart the axle and redoing the seal, I. E. Waterproof Silicone bead etc.
Thanks in advance for your responses.
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First Welcome to the site :D
Now it is hard without seeing the machine But Lets start with the Belt. If it is OLD it may be worn Meaning it is NOT as WIDE as it was when new. This is the easy fix. Best to get a new belt even if just to have for back up. Then you can see the difference between the two. Most of the time the problem you say your having is due to a worn belt. Also you can move the engine back some to compensate but you still have a Worn Belt !
The water deal is not all that uncommon ! If you Grease the bearings real good it will help . ( you should anytime After your running in water ) But you can jack the machine up . Pull the wheel off and unbolt the outer flange and use Plumbers Putty in tape form . Put in between the flange and body. A Little Water getting in is not bad but keep an eye on it if your out there for some time !
Most of us put a small Bilge pump in the lower tub . I have one in Mine even thou I don't swim very often but when I do I am good to go.
Hope this helps and Please ask anything you want to know as we are here to help ! banana
Also the belt is a Dayco HP3003
;)
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Wow. Thank you for the help! I have a small bulge installed as well. I will try those things out. I appreciate the response. I’ll update y’all once I do these and see if they solve the problem.
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NO Problem ;)
You can check your old belt first as it should be around 1.3/16 wide at the top. Or Close as the exact # fails me rite now whistling
Good luck and keep us posted popcorn
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You say your new to this, you know you have to hold the laterals forward to make it go.
Especially when climbing a hill.
popcorn popcorn popcorn
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Whipperag, I’m new to a Max, but not to that extent lol. Reminds me of when my Uncle was in the dog house. My aunt called because the car wouldn’t start and he asked her if the key was in the ignition. Bad move there. But yes, I am new in the sense that, I had a Max II breifly back in 2002 but it has been a while. That was a project that I got running eventually and sold. This time around is for my personal enjoyment. I ordered a new belt and should be able to put it on this weekend to give it a try. I’ll keep y’all posted.
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IT may not be your belt, let’s wait and see.
popcorn popcorn popcorn popcorn
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So I did some trial and error this weekend. Put a new belt, tightened it by adjusting the position of the motor. Did an oil change because the previous owner had overfilled the 16hp Briggs by a quarter quart or so. Put new spark plugs and took it for a spin. It was still lacking any power to climb etc. I then pulled the air filter and although it looked great, it had oil inside it, most likely from the previous owner overfilling it. So I replaced the air filter and it seems to have a bit more power. But it’s not at 100%. I took it back out and got stuck in the mud with it. The tires wouldn’t spin at times because the mud was too much for the engine. I had to rock it back and forth but to no avail. It seems something is holding back its power but I don’t know what. I adjusted the governor to wide open. But it doesn’t seem to have as much power as it should.
Shouldn’t the tires at least keep spinning in the mud and not bog down completely. It was slop yes. But the 4 wheeler my buddy had mad it right through. But the max didn’t seem to have enough power. Could this be a clutch issue? I’m running out of things in my mind that it could be. But Id like halls expertise on this matter if y’all could help me out. Thanks in advance.
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time for a compression test. maybe go thru the carb. make sure the throttle is opening all the way.
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Alright I’ll try, about a year or so ago someone posted a similar problem with a 18 hp. It ended up being a fuel filter issue. 2 cents hope it helps
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Are both clutches opening and closing as the engine RPM changes? As the drive clutch pulley closes with increased engine RPM the driven clutch should get further apart. If so are they operating at full range in and out?
With the transmission in neutral how does the engine sound at idle and when you increase RPM? Does the enginge seem to gain speed normally? How many RPM is it running at full throttle (estimate)? Is the butterfly in the carb wide open at full throttle?
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I will check on those things ascaw and get back to y'all. I noticed the clutch pulley closes will running but very little. It moves about a half inch outward as it tightens. Im not sure what the full range on the clutch is. The engine sounds great at idle and it gains speed normally. It isn't fast by any means. I don't think it goes over 10mph. I will check the RPM. Its supposed to be 3600 RPM but I need to verify that it is.
Ascaw, and WFO I will work on the carb and check on that too shortly and get back to y'all with that update.
Delduck, I will check the fuel filter and possibly just replace if theres any chance thats the problem.
Thanks for the input!
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Delduck, I just remembered the previous owner told me he put a brand new fuel filter on the engine before I got it. I don't think that could be the issue. I wish it was, that would have been an easy fix.
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This is the machine y'all are helping me with btw.
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The belt should climb to the top of the drive clutch at full speed and the belt should be at the bottom of the driven clutch at full speed. At rest or no speed the belt should be the opposite on both clutches.
My 1999 Max II 16 hp does 25 MPH. If you are only getting 10 MPH then something is amiss.
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You should be able to see the clutch go Full open at the trans with it in Neutral and full throttle !
and the engine should go Completely closed.
Sounds like the engine clutch is sticking closed.
Post a pic of the clutch set up if you can.
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I will post a pic of the set up by this coming weekend. The Max is in the garage of my Lake house about 50 miles away so I drive up every Saturday to play with it. I was thinking the clutch wasn't engaging like it should. I will post those pics soon.
I really appreciate all yalls input!
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do a vid of it if you can popcorn
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That I can do, and will! Thanks
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I think you have motor problems.
Sounds like you don’t have the rpms to engage the clutches.
You should have been able to spin those tires in the mud.
popcorn popcorn popcorn
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If one of the clutches (or both) are sticking. Is there anything I can do as far as pulling them off, taking them apart and greasing them etc? Or would the diagnosis be that I need to order a new clutch(es)?
I agree Whipperag. I should have plenty of power from that engine. Im going to look into the carb and make sure the butterfly valve is full open.
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Check for sheared flywheel key.
That can be checked without pulling the motor..
banana popcorn banana popcorn
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Check compression first is you can.
popcorn popcorn
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Will do shortly and report back. Hopefully with some good news.
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Flywheel key can be just bent and not sheared,
That will affect the timing.
popcorn popcorn
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Here is a link to a video of my clutches. They seem to be working well. I will now work on carb etc to find where the power is being lost.
https://youtu.be/E3TdamiVWt8
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The engine sounds weak and the max RPM sounds slow. The clutches look like they are operating normally.
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Clutch looks good even though the Driven looks as it could open farther ? How much free play you have in the belt ?
But also the engine dose sound FLAT :-\
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I think you have motor problems.
Sounds like you don’t have the rpms to engage the clutches.
popcorn popcorn popcorn
I thought it was a motor problem.
Check the compression and the timing.
I would check the valves also.
The clutches look a little out of alignment, but I don't think that's the problem.
Time for an ungoverned Big Block. banana banana banana
popcorn popcorn popcorn popcorn
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Is the governor screwed up maybe and holding it back???
dance dance dance dance banana banana banana
popcorn popcorn popcorn popcorn
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I’m going to tear into the engine tomorrow evening and report back. The govenor is set to wide open. But there is definitely a issue with the engine. I’ve noticed the RPMs aren’t what they should be as well with that video. I should just put a big block in it. Problem solved haha. I’ll let y’all know what I find.
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I heard ALOT of lifter tap also after I watched it again. You may have the valves out of adjustment ??
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Well I feel like a green horn. I made the novice mistake of not checking the valves to begin with. Wedge and Whipperag had it pegged. I found a bent push rod, and the valve spacing was way off. Replaced the rod and spaced the valves at 0.004. It runs like a champ now. Thanks for all yalls input. Won’t make that mistake again.
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Glad you got it running. banana Post a video of it in action. popcorn
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It happens to us ALL whistling
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Thanks to yalls suggestions its running strong. Next thing up, changing the bearings. They have a lot of play and are worn out, so water leaks pretty fast. Just ordered a new set from Richard. Should be getting that done this weekend or next.
Here are a few videos of it running last night. My brother in-law got a kick out of it. And I scared my girlfriend pretty bad coming over that dirt pile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfDdm4XIJqc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCwci6Yb_sA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jv_E7WyX0r8
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Looks like you have it running strong and having a blast. dance dance dance
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SOO GLAD to see you out in it ! banana banana banana
Have a Ball as your HOOKED NOW ;)
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Oh I am! After having my other Max as a teenager and not having money to get it running right, this one will get plenty of use! I put Multi Seal tire sealant in this bad boy for all the thorns here in south Texas.
As you can tell in the video, the chains seem to squeak even after I put chain lube on all of them and adjusted them by following 6x6world's youtube video. Is that common?
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NO. Where are your Adjusters set ?
Sounds like Bearings to me whistling
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Adjusters were set yesterday. They are about 4-5 notches from bottoming out. I figured I would order chains next time they get slack. As for bearings, I just ordered 6 new bearings and 6 new bushings for it from Richard that just shipped out today! banana
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I agree with Wedge when I heard your 3rd video. That's bearings. I've yet to hear chains squeak. :)
BTW. LOVED watching you have fun. ;D Keep posting those videos! banana
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You ordered 6 bearings and 6 bushings.
This car still has the bronze bushings in the end of the axles?
You should consider converting it over to inner bearings instead of those bushings.
The drone bushings are a waste of time and will never last.
You’ll be changing them again next year.
popcorn popcorn dance dance dance
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What all would I need to convert them? Just the inner bearings and inner bearing mount?