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General Category => ARGO: Talk pertaining to Argo ATV => Topic started by: SARgo1 on September 03, 2017, 10:49:18 PM

Title: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 03, 2017, 10:49:18 PM
Howdy. I'm new to Argo's and AATV's in general. Actually, I've only had one for a week or so now.

Some background;

I'm military, RCAF. I'm Search and rescue, flying the Cormorant Helo (flight engineer):

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1118888/fullsize/5d84ce7feb4343ce83e23292f8a50ec4_zpsbade8261.jpg)

But after 28 years, I'm just too beaten up and broken to continue. It's a young man's game and I'm....errr.....not....anymore.

;)

Since I can't carry on, I'm being medically released from the military. No regrets. I've done and seen things most people will never even have a concept of. My pension and the medical release "parachute" is also pretty good.

But SAR isn't something you just " stop". It gets in the blood. That others may live isn't just an motto, it's a way of life. So even though I won't be Helo SAR, I'm planning to join the provincial Ground Search team once I'm out. It's all volunteer and poorly funded. As in, it's not.

My problem is my injuries mean I can't traverse uneven ground for very far. Not good for a ground search team member.

Enter: the Argo (SARgo? LOL!)

The Argo will be my legs.

I wanted an 8x8 for the size it offers over a 6x6 (carrying gear, searchers, casualties, etc), Argo because it's fairly mainstream for these rigs (get parts, accessories, etc without having to fire up the welder or lathe every time something breaks)  and tracks because Nova Scotia is somewhere around 50-75% rivers, lakes and bog/swamp/muck. That's also why a quad or side by side wouldn't be a great choice for me either, I need amphibious for SAR around here.

I looked at new and damned near had a stroke right then and there! 25-35 grand CAD! Nope,that's not going to happen. Sure was pretty though....

So it had to be used. But they're not common around these parts and just plain hard to come by used. Those do have 'em, aren't selling.

I got lucky and came across an 86 8x8. Came with windshield,  supertracks and a soft top. It's a Conquest, so hyd brakes and the old Kohler Magnum 18 hp. Gent wanted 4500 CAD:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1118886/fullsize/4.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1118885/fullsize/2.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1118887/fullsize/5.jpg)

It's used but not (particularly) abused.

Gent was a DNR guy so he took care of it as best he could for the 10 years he owned it. But he sure wasn't a mechanic. He had replaced one caliper and the lever was adjusted close up to the firewall. The other lever was a good 4-6" pull further to get it to grab. The carb was gummed up and it had to run with choke. The tires are some kind of knobby tire by Kenda, Dominator IIRC:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1119199/fullsize/21231612_1839392402745554_4475187036547337221_n.jpg)

The tracks were loose as....well, insert favorite curse word here. I also had to pull the wheels off each side to get the tracks off as the trailer was only 62" wide. It all made driving it on the trailer a fair bit of "fun".

No rear floor. Gent had a couple pieces of plywood in there. I wasn't worried about that as a couple welded spacers to the rear frame and a sheet of 1/8" 5052 aluminum (attached with Dzeus fasteners) would make a nice strong floor. Flat floor is preferred anyways as my wife trains tracking dogs and this will give them a good surface after I bond some rubber covering to it.

I pointed out a few things, hemmed and hawed a bit and then my missus played the "I don't want to buy this piece of junk" game. We ended up at 3 grand.

That's pretty good around these parts for a running, intact 8x8.

I took it directly to the cottage. First thing was a quick burn down the road. Ran like crap. Steered like crap. I goosed it wide open and it caught after a few seconds. No suspension and aired up tires (to squeeze it on the trailer) quickly became a bad combination on a few woops in the road. it took a bad bounce, things started to go really wrong really fast and I went for a handful of brakes. Well, one side grabbed first (still out of adjustment) and it jerked sideways, I then backed off the brakes trying to regain control and it all just made things even worse. We shot off into the trees and I ended up nose in against a big pine. I was laughing my head off, half happy I was still alive and half terrified of what just happened. Trip back to the cottage was decidedly slower and more cautious.

So, first off it was adjusting the brake/steering levers. I evened them out and steering became much easier and the whole rig became much more controllable as I didn't have to remember to pull one lever first when I wanted to stop. Then the carb came apart and got a good going through. Reinstalled and adjusted, the old Kohler now worked great. No more surging, responds to throttle. It's not perfect, but it's getting there.

Then I drove it down to the harbor. Yep, those tires don't swim worth a damn. Not a big surprise. They also make it a bear to turn on land, as the knobs just dig in and don't skid well at all. Gravel is ok, sod just gets ripped out and chunks go flying. I get it in deep enough to check wheel seals. Yup, most are leaking. Not a surprise and I expected it on a rig this old. But it's coming in damned fast up front somewhere. The skidplate (Argo's "second tub" arrangement) looks intact, but now I'm hoping the hull behind it is good and there's just a hub gasket gone really bad up front. Can't see exactly where it's coming in with the drivetrain installed. I'll have to check that out a little closer later. The "auto" bilge pump is dead, but the manual one he installed pumps it out and has no problems pumping the hull dry in a few seconds.

Back up to the yard and I degrease/clean the thing several times:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1119195/fullsize/21150341_1834123509939110_8394709580925628120_n.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1119196/fullsize/21151254_1834123479939113_6606829326355772739_n.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1119199/fullsize/21231612_1839392402745554_4475187036547337221_n.jpg)

and can now get a good look at double chains and sprockets (and the engine/transmission). Chains are stretched, but again, I expected that. Sprockets may be OK, have to get the chains off to know for sure. Looks like the idler sprockets are toast. Points on every tooth.

So, I've got some basic work to do. I expected most of it with a well used unit and nothing I can't handle. I ordered up some half links for the supertracks and that should (hopefully) take up the looseness. I took out one full link and it's too tight to get together, but it looks like a half link will be just about right to get my 3 odd inches of sag on the tracks from the 6-8" of sag there is now.

Once the maintenance is all addressed I'll be on to a SAR build up.

I'm looking at building racks, seats, pushbars and the like. I've got a 3500lb winch to install, which will be on a receiver type arrangement (connected to the frame winch bracket0 so I can use it front and rear. My Lincoln 180 will get a decent workout on all that stuff. Some will be aluminum, some will be steel. Smart use of each will keep the weight down. That's important for a SAR rig where lots of rescue/first aid gear goes in.

Of course, survival gear will be on board too. Military is good at making sure you know what to bring in the woods and how to use it.

;)

I'm also wanting to build it into a springer. I've got several reasons for that:

1. Looks like a fun project
2. It will be gentler to my beat up old bod
3. Looks to be fun to use when I just want to off road, and
4. when you've got someone with broken bones and such on board, you want the ride as smooth as possible.

Springer is a long range project though.

I'm not sure how well tracks will work with a springer though. Tracks is a must have and 4-6 feet of snow is common here in winter and it hangs around in the woods well into spring, sometimes summer.

Well, that's where it currently sits. More as I get into it.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 04, 2017, 09:55:57 AM
Great Intro on who you are what your into !  ;)
I am sure you will get all the help and info you will be needing rite here that's for sure.
Please keep us posted on you work as it looks like you have a good platform to build off of !  popcorn
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 05, 2017, 09:34:12 PM
So it slowly gets better and better.

Someone had messed with the governer, so I reset that to factory.

With the idle cranked down, i was able to get a more accurate setting on the slow jet which has improved idle.

Came out the next morning and started it up and the idle and throttle went all weird. After a bit of sniffing around, i discovered the throttle cable had somehow cocked sideways and kinked inside the throttle housing. A little bending and reshaping put it back to a sericeable state. A good lube inside the housing and with my pressure cable lube attachement made everthing work better than before and idle/throttle was back to normal.

Tomorrow I'll pull the driver clutch off and see if shimming the spring will help with the drag at idle. The clutch opens fully at a stop, but closes up just a bit too much at any stage speed above stop. I'm thinking the spring has just fatigued a bit after 30 years. I'll replace it once I can source a new one.

I ordered a brace of green switches for the dash for accesories. Then a tach/hourmeter was ordered up.

Last thing was a call to the local john deer place to see if they stocked roller chain. They only had single, but could order double. 65 bucks plus tax for a 10' length. Not too bad. I could order cheaper online, but shipping pushes it up nearly twice the cost. I'll order up two at a time to spread the cost over a couple months, eventually replacing them all. First two will do the rear wheels, wich have the worst sag (chains hit the cross supports).

Also did some thinking. Im going to use 1 1/4 aluminum angle and 3" flat aluminum and weld up a channel to go around the whole rubber strip, bending and fitting as nessesary. The angle will go on the side and undeneath, the flat will go on top. This will give me the reinforcement for the tube and rub strip while also giving me a "mud lip"  that will cover the tires. I'll make it  in front, rear and side pieces and will be bolted through the rivet holes for the nody halves. That will make it solid, help with sag, be removeable and give me a base to build the front brush guard, rear carrying tray and attach the wider rear mudflaps.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 07, 2017, 09:23:39 PM
Pulled the driver clutch apart today. Rusty and dry as a popcorn fart.

Sanded it down (not the sheaves, just the covers) and shot it with a coat of rustileum.

Everything got a good shot of brake clean and then the moving parts got a good graphite lube.

Then i spun out an 11/32 spacer for the clutch spring on the lathe.

Put the driver back together and popped it back on to the crankshaft.

Then i took the broken engine shrouds and hit them with the mig. Not the prettiest job, but its solid again.

Put the muffler and assorted other bits back on and fired it up.

Just about perfect!

Now the belt doesnt move at idle (or barely turns) and shifting is as smooth as you can expect on an argo box. Throttles up and grabs just fine.

Rest of the engine went back together and then it started funny throttle behavior as soon as i would put the air filter on. The throttl would hang when  blipped.  But it wouldnt hang if i lifted the air filter off. Chased my tail on that one a bit and finally discovered when i pushed down the filter, the throttle would hang. Turns out the governor arm was just rubbing on the bottom of the air cleaner housing. I went theough thoughts of clearancing the housing and machining up spacers, then i realized the governor arm is just stamped sheet metal. I gave it a few mm of downward bend and problem solved

I celebrated by buying a new brake duct. Mine is split, one end has ripped wide open and hanging. I also ordered an hourmeter that does tach, clock and programable maint reminders. Useful when an argo calls for maint at the 30 hr mark.

Im thinking if we're in to the new house this winter i may just strip it down to the frwme and do a complete overhaul. Have to wait and see on that one though. I'd do it at our current house but I don't have the garage space. Single car garage full of my tools, the mustang and two motorcycles just doesnt leave much room! :)

Getting there. Slowly, but surely.....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 08, 2017, 08:54:50 PM
Little more fiddling with the carb and throttle cable today. Runs slick now.

The clutch spacer is doing its job just fine. No drive at idle and trans shifts easy now, even with the idle turned up a touch to make it a touch smoother. There is just a little too much hesitation before drive engagement for my liking. Works fine, just a little delay. I may spin up a half sized spacer compared to the one in there now and see if it works a little better for me.

That all done, i started digging into the wiring. What a freaking mess! 

Once again, the PO was well meaning but he was no better an electrician than he was a mechanic. Wire splices, twisted together ends, butt connectors, wire taps, wires all over and taped over doubled up for length, and vinyl tape everywhere. Some spots that I took the tape apart, water actually ran out!

The automatic bildge pump he thought didnt work turned out to be a crap wiring job combined with hooking up the auto/manual switch wrong. I pulled the bildge pump out, opened it up, cleaned it out and tested it out on a battery. Worked perect. Turning to the switch assembly revealed incorrect wiring and the switch was wired to run a negative switch scheme. The pump didnt like that and none of thei indicator leds worked. I tore it apart and rewired it to switched positive and fixed the led indicators. Test run showed eveything working perfectly.

One of the old headlight/floodlights burned out. I dont think i'm going to bother replacing the lamp though. I'm just going to wait and replace them both with led units instead. When I get around to that, I'll prob toss on a couple red led tail lights as well since it doesnt have any at all right now and you he d them to run after dark here on the trails.

Tomorrow, i'll look at redoing the entire under hood/ dash wiring. I'm going to swap all the crap/corroded barrel connectors for delphi weather tight connectors and probably do a few things like add a power distribution block/busbar. I plan to add a fuse box also and the only things i can see that even remotely look like fuses are a couple in line glass fuse holders. I can do much better than that.

I am also supposed to get a decent back pay check in the next month or two. Should be enough to buy a new set of tires that will swim. Maybe enough for the chains and a few other bits as well.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 08, 2017, 08:59:30 PM
One step at a time Brother !!
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 10, 2017, 11:05:14 AM
So I'm trying to decide which outboard to mount ont eh back.

I've got a 2hp Johnson and an 8 hp Johnson. Both at 2 strokes.

The 2hp weights about 30-35 lbs and has an integrated fuel tank. I run it all day long on a tank using it as a trolling motor on my 12 foot tinny. Even flat out, it's not really what I would call a "powerhouse". It gets my 12 footer moving pretty good, but nothing near plane. But I've recently rebuilt it and converted to solid state ignition so it's damned near a stone axe as far as reliability goes.

The 8 hp is closer to 60 lbs. It needs and external tank. for an 8hp it's fairly impressive. Digs my 12 footer out of the hole and on plane in nothing flat. On plane, it gets the tinny really flying. The 8 HP is solid a s a rock too. Runs on first pull ever time and has never even missed a beat.

The argo is never going to plane, duh right?

:)

I'm trying to decide if double the weight (8hp +tank) is worth it. The argo is only ever going to move so fast, under 5 mph I'm figuring at best due to the tire drag. plus, there's the inconvenience of having to drag around a separate fuel tank with the 8hp.

Neither are long shaft motors. But I'm planning a scissoring mount to get it nice and low.

Opinions?

I won't be getting them out on the water any time soon so I can't give 'em both a try right now. The Argo is torn apart to rectify the PO's electrical sins and upgrade the wiring.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 10, 2017, 11:08:29 AM
The Bigger the better for speed and moving around Plus the Argo's Float Nose Down due to the engine being up front so you will not have a problem of it sitting Rear down. It may work better as it will flatten the whole rig out !?!?
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 10, 2017, 11:15:21 AM
The Bigger the better for speed and moving around Plus the Argo's Float Nose Down due to the engine being up front so you will not have a problem of it sitting Rear down. It may work better as it will flatten the whole rig out !?!?

I was actually thinking about argo's sitting nose down int he water and believe it's probably better for the rig when swimming on the tires. Figure most of the drive is coming from the rear tires since they are further out. With them further out, they're not digging on the "up stroke" which works against forward thrust.

But with an outboard, all bets are off. More weight on the rear means more tire drag, but it may allow the hul to slip through the water easier. I'm thinking more drag is worse than any hydrodynamic advantage of sitting further down in the rear.

It may also be that more HP means more prop speed, which means more cavitation behind the argo in it's disturbed flow.

Maybe I'll just have to wait to get it in the water next year to find out....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 10, 2017, 11:36:34 AM
Hmmm, 2hp seems to do reasonably well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7fb-Yzpo-k

Not going to win any races, but an Argo is not exactly a drag boat either.

Unless you mean a "high drag boat"!

LOL!
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 10, 2017, 11:38:26 AM
5hp seems distinctly more "sprightly":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmQYn5b2pFw

Maybe the 8Hp is the way to go.....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 10, 2017, 12:04:15 PM
Those Vids will sure point you in the rite direction.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 10, 2017, 09:26:35 PM
Not a lot done today, but some.

Continued to rip out the PO wiring debacle. Looking much cleaner under hood now.

Installed the weatherpack connector on the bilge pumps. I wired the automatic pump to the automatic switch and then wired the manual switch to the manual side of the auto pump and put the second pump on the same switch. Reasoning being: if I'm hitting the manual pump (as long ats the float switch hasn't conked out on auto) it's probably a bad situation and I want all pumps going as hard as possible!

I also had to repair some of the engine wiring. Someone had two splices and two butt connectors on the rectifier charge wire. They also had a butt connector and a splice on the engine kill wire. All of it points for failure and increased resistance due to bad/corroded connections.  So I clipped back to good wire, soldered and heat shrunk new pieces of the same gauge wire and then used a 20A weatherpack connector on them. Left decent slack for vibration and strain relief.

still moving slow, but getting stronger every day!

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 11, 2017, 07:53:34 PM
It take time but just look at what you have when you step back and ponder !!
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 12, 2017, 10:16:12 PM
Alrighty, pretty sure i have the dash layout.

To the right (left to right) of the levers will be choke, key and 10 arb styke switches. Switches will be things like headliaghts, winch, tail lights, L/R/Rear/Front floods, brake blower, etc.

To the left (right to left) will be the bilge pump switch panel, the combination gauge (hour/tach/clock/volt etc) and then a panel to hold a dedicated voltmeter/sual usb charger and a regular 12V socket.

All green backlit of course.

I'm thinking of mounting a gps right behind the kevers and slightly above on the dash. What that will be exactly i havent decided. Hand held gps or some type of tablet (7" perhaps) with an app. The tablet seems the more attractive of the two becuase it can do other things. A handheld will be water tight though. Have to think about it more...

So it should look good and be functional too.

:)

Had to "pause" on the rewiring. I had to order more delphi connectors with the right number of pins in them. Not a big deal. Gives me time to put more thought into how i want to build the main harness and if i want to leave some extra "room" for future additions....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 14, 2017, 06:51:42 PM
Auugghhhh! My eyes! My eyes! I'm blind! I'm blind!

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120104/fullsize/img_6374.jpg)

Hey, I can see again! But everything looks funny now:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120103/fullsize/img_6373.jpg)


27 watt led lights. 45 watts total. 3 amp draw total. Pretty good! Powered them up in the dark garage and they actually throw some pretty serious light. Its not going to get out hundreds of feet, but the argo is going to be slow speed driving and tops out at 18-20 mph anyways.

and the dash layout from left to right: power port panel, tacho/hourmeter, bilge pump panel, choke knob, ign cylinder and a brace of 10 "arb style" switches.

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120105/fullsize/img_6376.jpg)

All green backlit.

Should be pretty cool.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: Model Citizen on September 14, 2017, 07:38:22 PM
Wow, that came out really, really nice, even though I had to cock my head 90 degrees to look at it.  ;D
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 14, 2017, 07:52:58 PM
Yeah, I know. I think its an iphone thing and supermotors doesnt have a way for you rotate it.

The lights are actually just sitting there for now. This weekend im going to cut the holes to fit and set them into the body.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 14, 2017, 08:21:33 PM
Try and Rotate the pcs in your settings. Look Great but I feel like a Parrott !  rofl
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: WFO on September 14, 2017, 08:48:38 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAH that was funny
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 14, 2017, 08:54:49 PM
Funny for You WFO ! But I almost spilled My Beer !!  rofl
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 14, 2017, 08:58:53 PM
Try and Rotate the pcs in your settings. Look Great but I feel like a Parrott !  rofl

Don't know where "settings" is. You mean on supermotors?  They're right side up on supermotors. It's just an image link here...
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 14, 2017, 09:05:52 PM
here ya go
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 14, 2017, 09:08:50 PM
and
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 14, 2017, 09:09:38 PM
There we go ! Now I won't spill my Beer looking at it   hilarious
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 17, 2017, 06:41:56 AM
Mounted in the body and slaved to a temporary battery (waiting for more delphi connectors to arrive):

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120334/fullsize/img_6399.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120337/fullsize/img_6403.jpg)

The last pic looks like its looking down because it is. I had to hold the phone up over my head. Any lower and the lights are blinding and just wash everything out. Its actually hard to look at them, they actually are that bright!

I had to square out the body holes, cut the mounting boss off the lights and drill/tap holes in the rear of the housing to attach body mounting brackets (the place for the bolts was there, just not drilled).

Lights off:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120335/fullsize/img_6401.jpg)

Lights on:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120336/fullsize/img_6402.jpg)

In darkness:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120338/fullsize/img_6405.jpg)

Night pic is a little deceptive because of the tree/bush to the immediate front. The big pines behind it were all lit up, but just doesn't show in the pics.

Right around 27!watts each and under 3 amps total to run both.

Pretty good for 26 bucks!

Edit: supermotors seems determined to post pics side ways no matter what I do! Lol! Its an iphone thing from what i can figure...!

I also took the drive clutch apart again and spun up a 0.0781 spring spacer on the lathe to replace the 0.156 spacer. Now its just about perfect. No crunch or walking away shifting at idle, tiny bit of flare before drive to get the rpms up for good pull away.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: ascaw on September 17, 2017, 08:28:00 AM
Those lights look like they will be great for night ops.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 17, 2017, 09:51:58 AM
The Plus side is the Very low AMP draw !
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 17, 2017, 07:31:27 PM
Yep, low draw was a lot of the reason i'm going led everywhere. Leds have come a long way lately and now bright white is cheap and effective in an led lamp.

The argo is going to get an alternator also so i can run pretty mich everthing i want. Im going to need it if night searching as there will be lights front, sides and rear when rumbling down the trail or through the bush. It will be more about being seen by the Search object than seeing the search object. Infind the only things effective for a non-cooperative target at night is FLIR, night vision search or nightsun sewrchlight. In that order of effectiveness. Naked eye in the dark or white light is literally a "shot in the dark" if you find them or not.

All the same, i'll probably carry a couple hand held spots that will run off the 12v plug or maybe mount one or two on the cage somewhere that can be passenger controlled.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: Model Citizen on September 17, 2017, 07:42:18 PM
Nice job. I like the way you anticipate what you will need & how to make it happen.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 17, 2017, 07:46:59 PM
Finished off today making the rear floor template:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120350/fullsize/img_6407.jpg)

Transferred it over to the 1/8" aluminum sheet. Will cut it out tomorrow and probably take it to work where i can bend a lip on the forward edge so stuff doesn't drop off the front of the floor and down into the chain cavities. The floor is going to be secured to the rails with dzeus fasteners, but a nice wide lip will also protect the fuel tank in case it does happen to come in contact with the aluminum floor.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 17, 2017, 07:51:11 PM
Nice work my friend !
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: WFO on September 17, 2017, 07:54:43 PM
thats a job for a water jet.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 17, 2017, 08:02:23 PM
Sorry to say i dont have one handy. Wish i did.

The big shear at work, Jig saw and belt sander will have to do....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 17, 2017, 08:33:51 PM
Hand made is the way to GO ! >:D
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 18, 2017, 05:25:34 PM
Floor:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1120377/fullsize/img_6408.jpg)

Pretty close to final shape. I need to belt sand it down a touch here and there, weld the supports to the Argo frame, install the dzeus fasteners and make a hatch door over both body drain plugs.

Its solid enough that i can walk around on it with my 225 lbs. Very tiny bit of deflection, which i will handle by riveting a cross brace to the underside of the floor.

Some tie down rigs will double as something to grab to lift the floor out when needed.

Im a little back and forth on bonding some thin rubber matting to it or using some of the foam matting (looks like gray diamond plate).
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on September 18, 2017, 05:54:26 PM
That looks good !
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: WFO on September 18, 2017, 06:02:45 PM
good job . you made quick work of that  8)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on September 19, 2017, 05:31:57 AM
New spool gun showed up today.

 dance

Now to get a bottle of 100% argon and start practicing my aluminum welding.

Toying with the idea of ditching the steel Argo frame and building one out of aluminum. I'm building all the racks and whatnot out of aluminum (for weight consideration and I just like working with aluminum) so it's not a big leap to do a frame too. Give me a chance to stiffen the old rig up. The floor piece is dented and rusty and the whole thing twists and wanders like a drunken sailor over anything even resembling uneven ground. It's eventually going to be a Springer, so stiffer frame the better IMHO. The suspension will do the work of keeping tire in contact with the ground, not a twisting frame and tub.

I'll have to check with my supplier to see what dimensions are available for channel and such.

Be good to also refine my welding skills. Racks first (ie: practice on non-structural)  then stuff like frame, winch support, etc.be totally worth it to me even if I only see something like 20 lbs. That's another 20 lbs of first aid or rescue kit I can load on or another 20 lbs that can go towards mitigating the extra weight for the Springer suspension...

;)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: Craig_B on October 05, 2017, 09:32:53 AM
Awesome looking project!! And well done.

Looking forward to seeing how all this progresses.

Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 08, 2017, 04:50:12 AM
So ive been needing a trailer to haul the Argo. But like most guys, I don't want to spend any more than I have too.

Problem was; I wanted a trailer big enough to take the Argo with supertracks, which means a minimum of 72" wide. Those size trailers are a little harder to find used and just don't come cheap when you do.

I've been watching the local buy and sell and there was a beat up looking old home built that was 6'4"x10'6". But it looked like poo and he wanted 400 bucks.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDgwMA==/z/9-0AAOSw9EJZtyHp/$_59.JPG)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDgwMA==/z/dzAAAOSwJb5ZtyIF/$_59.JPG)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NDgwWDgwMA==/z/kV8AAOSwCCVZtyIV/$_59.JPG)

 I thought about looking at it once or twice but it just looked so bad in the pictures I couldn't be bothered.

As fate would have it, I actually drove by it yesterday when I was headed somewhere. I stopped to have a look just because I was there anyways.

Well, it still looked like crap. But under the crap looks, it was actually pretty heavily built and in decent shape. There was something I couldn't put my finger on about it, but it was big enough and certainly a good base to build on.

The for sale sign also had 400 crossed out and 300 written in.

So I called the guy and we got to talking. Ended up paying 250 bucks and hooking it up. Tows straight and true. No bounce and the truck doesn't even know it's three.

I get it home and get a more in depth look at it. It had hydraulic surge brakes on it at one time, but the master cylinder is long gone. That seems strange to me on a home built utility trailer, but I dismiss it as someone used what they had lying around. The tires are new 12" Carlisle's on 5 bolt rims. The frame is thick and the sides are not c channel, but rather look like a box section that isn't a complete box. It takes a 2 inch ball and the A frame is very heavy. 3500 lb axle with surge brakes. Theres some kind of bracket in each corner under the soft and rotting floor. There's strange little posts on the front and rear frame that angle up so they're not tie down points.

Then it hits  me what I'm actually looking at: it's a converted camper trailer and a fairly big one at that. I'm guessing it's an old "Bonair" from about the 70's as  the seller told me he bought it off a guy who used it to haul his stuff down from Montreal. Couple things also have "made in Quebec" stamped in them (ie: plastic wheel wells).  That's why the welds look so good and it's fairly heavily built; only the registration is "home built", the base trailer frame is production built.. Certainly heavy enough to drag my Argo or a motorcycle or two around. 10'+ will be nice for hauling lumber from the yard as my truck only has a 6.5' bed (biggest I could get on an f150 crew cab).

So, plans are to strip it down to the frame and blast it clean. Drop tail added and axle flip to make a nice deck over utility trailer. Drop gate at the rear and I'll build platforms over each wheel well for the Argo to sit on. A bit more steel and probably 2x6 pressure treated boards. Two raised platforms will give me some storage on the trailer for some long but low items as well as wheel clearance.

Plan is to end up with something like this:

(http://distillery-trailercentral.s3.amazonaws.com/rd1qmq/O8r23Y/2017_Longhorn_Trailers_77x14_Single_Axle_Utility_Trailer_w_2ft_Dovetail__2ft_Ramp_Gate_eOLlWC.jpg)

(https://sleequipment.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/a/r/argodovetailpc220037_1_1.jpg)

but in a deck over configuration.

Should be fun. Pics as it develops. Only in to it for 250 right now (and I could use it as is) so that's good!

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on October 08, 2017, 10:22:14 AM
Well you have a good base to start your build. Just remember everything you add will add up in Weight.
The wood floor planking is Heavy so you may want to look and that also.
I would also see if you could put bigger wheels and tires on it.
Let us know how you make out on it.  popcorn
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 08, 2017, 10:29:10 AM
Tear down time.

Its three layers of various  thickness of plywood in various stages of decay:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1121385/fullsize/img_6590.jpg)

That pic is the last layer and is the orginal 1970-1980 era plywood. Still has the holes for power and water lines in it. Soft as puddin'! All the previous owners just keep slapping another thin layer of plywood over the previous as it went soft. Not the way to do it! All i had to do to get the layers off was grab and edge and pull, the screws pulled right out of thier underlayers with nearly no resistance.

Once stripped, over all, not in bad shape:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1121386/fullsize/img_6591.jpg)

A little cleaning and some rust paint and it'll be good as new.

Only bad piece is the very last rail:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1121387/fullsize/img_6592.jpg)

Not a big deal. Cut it out, weld in new. I was going to build a dove tail anyways so its minimal extra work to replace the bad rail.

Figure I'll raise it about 6 inches to make a clean, flat deckover:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1121388/fullsize/img_6594.jpg)

Dove tail will work nicely with the raise. I'll just make the tail a 3-4" drop. That will still add at least 2" of clearance from what it is now. The ball center comes up just enough to make it a perfect hieght for a standard hitch drop.

I was thinking an axle flip, but I think I'll just cut the spring mounts off and weld a spacer to the frame member:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1121389/fullsize/img_6595.jpg)

Then weld the spring mounts back on. Seems to be the cleanest way to go and maintains the orginal spring action.

I may just carry the spacer from front rail to the rear and weld at the cross beams along the way. Good way to add some strength and rigidityto the chassis while accomplishing the lift. Might slide the axle back a couple inches as well to get a bit more tongue weight since its no longer a camper and will be hauling stuff instead.

I also may end up doubling up the outside rails. Not so much for strength, but so i can add a c channel to take the deck boards. Added strength will just be an incidental bonus.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 08, 2017, 10:33:38 AM
Well you have a good base to start your build. Just remember everything you add will add up in Weight.
The wood floor planking is Heavy so you may want to look and that also.
I would also see if you could put bigger wheels and tires on it.
Let us know how you make out on it.  popcorn

Not really worried about weight. I'll build for function first and rejig for more capacity later if needed.

i'll just up to heavier springs and reinforce the frame if i get to find it becomes too heavy. Planning to swap on electric brakes in the near future as well.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 08, 2017, 03:40:35 PM
So, further measuring reveals i need a deck height of 22.5" to clear the tires and 3" of suspension movement.

I highly doubt it will move 3", but you never know. The camper springs are actually pretty soft, most likely so the dishes and pots in a camper dont get thrown around too much. I'll give them a go and if they are too soft I'll just replace them with something more robust.

Plan is to pit two 10' 2x3 metal tubes from the a frame to the rear rail. This will transfer all the load to the pulling frame and stiffen the whole thing up immeasurably.

Then a simple 2x2 piece to space the spring mounts down the total 5" i need to raise the deck to the priper height.

A 16" dove tail will bring the rear lift up to about 10" and the drop gate will make the rest if the ramp into the bed.

10 foot 2x6's will make the deck. That will give me the option of carrying the Argo, or bolting down one or two motorcycle chocks and ferrying my  bikes around. Anything else it will handle fine with the 2x6 deck boards.

The 12" tires and rims will have to stay or the trailer will just get too high for my liking. Possibly might be able to go up to a 13" if the suspension is stiff enough of if i install some bump stops.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 09, 2017, 08:41:17 AM
Well crap on a cracker!

Measured the axle. Just a hair under 2" diameter. a little over 2 7/8". That means its's a 2000 lb axle.

Oh well, it will do for now and I'll shop for a good deal for a proper 3500 lb axle with electric brakes. Likely upgrade to 13" or 14" tires as well while I'm at it.

This one is bent anyways, lots of negative camber. Likely overloaded as a utility trailer by a PO. If it had of been a 3500 lb axle, I might have straightened it, but no point in that now.

I'm still money ahead even if I buy a new axle. There's more than $250 worth of steel and stuff like coupler, etc in the thing as it is.

Probably have somewhere around $500-600 in to it when I'm done. Still way better than anything you will find used for a 6.5' x 10.5' flat deck ATV hauler around these parts....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 11, 2017, 05:15:39 PM
Add two lengths of 2x4" tube:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1121546/fullsize/img_6617.jpg)

Et voila! Deckover utility trailer:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1121547/fullsize/img_6618.jpg)

The new pieces have a little "stand off" from the original spring mount piece because the cross rails they are welded to aren't flush with them. Rather than notch the crossmembers, i just welded the ends of the 2x4 tube to them and accepted the space between the 2x4 and 2x3 pieces. To compensate, i'm going to amke a couple 3x3 plates and weld 2 per side across the gap. Kind of like a "fishplate". There will also be a support welded between the 2x4 tubes to make sure it all stay nice and rigidly in place.

I moved the axle back to the 60% postion. The orginal camper trailer had the axle dead center of the deck. I figure they had it centered due to the way the camper had the deck loaded with its components, putting the 10% tongue load on the hitch. Or maybe it was to account for the battery and propane tanks on the A frame. Meh, dunno. Utility trailers arent built that way, so i moved the axle back to a conventional postion for a utility trailer.

The deck will be 2x6 wood. Probably just local spruce. A piece of 1.5" angle will be welded to the top of the frame rails and that will form the channel for the wood to sit in.

Beavertail rear piece will follow later down the road. Im just getting it functional for now since we're moving to a new house in march 2018.

I'm going to swap the spring with my 12' aluminum boat trailer springs. The camper ones are 3 leaves and the boat springs are 4 leaves. The boat trailer is so stiff it doesnt give at all and the trailer just jumps around. Swapping springs over to the argo trailer just makes sense.

Next is to weld on some spring perches as i currently just turned the axle over to do the axle under spring flip.

Deck, some cleankng and painting and i can at least move the argo around.

Still not in to it for more than 300 bucks!

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 12, 2017, 08:43:30 PM
I'm beginning to thing I'm just going to give building a beavertail a pass.

Instead of the beavertail, I think I'm going to build a folding rear gate so it can be nice and long to ease loading and fold over to minimize the wind resistance.

Something along these lines:

(http://midsotamfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Midsota-UT-Bi-Fold-Gate-1.jpg)

Probably a touch taller than that since mine is a deck over. Not taller than the argo si going to be for sure.

I've had full height trailer gates before and you can really feel them back there. Just too much drag for my liking.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 14, 2017, 10:15:53 PM
More welding today. Put in a few more cross braces and added a 16" beavertail. It's not overly long, but it makes for a nice reduced breakover when used with my 6 foot ramps.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 17, 2017, 05:28:15 PM
Started decking the trailer out:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122276/fullsize/img_6636.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122277/fullsize/img_6635.jpg)

That's just cut and fit. Not bolted down yet. I have to clean and paint the frame before I bolt the deck down and I still have some welding to do before paint as well.

Probably going to stain it walnut or something like that.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on October 17, 2017, 06:13:15 PM
Looks like it should turn out to e a good trailer .
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 17, 2017, 06:43:23 PM
I didn't realize just how big it was going to be until i got a deck on there.  I knew the measurements were 6 1/2 feet by nearly 11 feet, but the deck really made it fill out.

Its just right for my argo though, as its 72" wide with the supertracks. That gives me 6" of play for when I'm driving the argo up on to the trailer.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: ascaw on October 17, 2017, 07:09:12 PM
Looking good.  6" gives you 3" per side, that's plenty of room for a tight squeeze.    :o
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: Model Citizen on October 17, 2017, 07:31:00 PM
You're doing a very nice job. :)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 22, 2017, 04:41:47 PM
Little bit of work done today on the dash layout:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122470/fullsize/img_6644.jpg)

One the left side is a 12v port, a double usb port, and a voltmeter. Next to that is the hour meter/rpm/maintenance minder. Finishing off the left is the bildge pump panel that was already in the argo when i bought it:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122471/fullsize/img_6649.jpg)

On the right is a brace of switches and the ignition key cylinder:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122472/fullsize/img_6645.jpg)

Well, at least its all in and mounted. Now is just to wire it all. Easy peasy, right?

;)

Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on October 22, 2017, 04:44:40 PM
How is the trailer coming along ?
Last time I looked you was on a roll !
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 22, 2017, 04:48:31 PM
Still coming along. More welding in progress.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on October 22, 2017, 04:56:35 PM
It all takes time my friend. Keep up the Good work !  ;)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: Model Citizen on October 22, 2017, 06:29:04 PM
. Keep up the Good work !  ;)

DITTO!
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 25, 2017, 03:49:27 PM
Thompsons water seal with semi clear cedar tint:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122590/fullsize/img_6658.jpg)

Picked up the steel yesterday to finish it all, including a bi-fold loading gate.  That was another 280 bucks.

So, if I've got it all tallied right in my head, I'm around 680-700 bucks in to it all told.

Now i just need to find time to get to it to finish it....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: ascaw on October 25, 2017, 05:00:47 PM
That looks nice.  A lot better than when you got it.  Don't make it too nice or you won't want to use it.    ;D
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 27, 2017, 08:59:09 PM
Well, that was a royal frickin' waste of money!

The Thompsons went on and 24 hours later the wood is turning gray at an exponential rate! Water doesn't bead except a few areas, others it just turns white when it rains.

What a crap product! Doesn't protect worth a shite! First time I've ever used it. Last time too!

Read the side of the bottle again and it appears to be mostly just solvent and paraffin. So ti is going to be a major biotch to get it off. Wax sunk into the wood doesn't exactly just melt off.

So, rathetr than strip or sand I think I'm just going to run all the boards through the planer and take a 32nd or 16th off the face.

Then I'm just going to use a good deck stain on it. Maybe a solid instead of a semi.....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: WFO on October 27, 2017, 09:16:16 PM
i use linseed oil and turpentine 2 to 1, the turpentine draws the oil into the wood. use a 1 gal pressurized bottle. get the bottle at home depot
twice a year or so
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on October 29, 2017, 05:25:11 PM
Ran the planks through the planer and got that thimpsons crap off. Had to anyways to bring them down about 3/8 to fit the 1.5 angle. Restained in a solid walnut. Got most of the gate finished also:

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122754/fullsize/img_6677.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122753/fullsize/img_6675.jpg)

(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1122755/fullsize/img_6679.jpg)

That gate is a heavy sumbitch! I'll have to rig up a spring gate assist or my already bad back is going to get worse!

Also welded the rear loading jacks on. Still too short, i need to extend the lower part of the leg about 3-4 inches.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 05, 2017, 04:19:25 PM
Almost 7 feet long and just over 200 lbs:

https://youtu.be/_Ra8A9V0g9A

Easy peasy!

You can see where it is just a touch hard to control when it folds, so I have some 24" gas struts on the way to take the weight of the folding part.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: ascaw on November 05, 2017, 04:55:02 PM
Your trailer is coming right along.  Nice work.  :)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on November 05, 2017, 06:39:44 PM
I Like it ! Nice work buddy  ;)
Plus 200 lbs is not that heavy at all. 
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 06, 2017, 04:50:11 AM
I Like it ! Nice work buddy  ;)
Plus 200 lbs is not that heavy at all.

200lbs is pretty heavy when you have to live with a ruptured disc....but the spring lift assist makes it easy peasy.

My back is only going to get worse as i get older, so the spring assist is "future proofing" as much as anything else.

Also started ordering shocks for the springer build. Need 8, but only ordered my first 4. Not a cheap endeavor...lol!

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on November 06, 2017, 05:53:44 PM
Ok Now I got ya ! The Gate it self is 200 lbs . Yea that is a Heavy Gate !
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 09, 2017, 06:19:09 PM
Scored 4 more shocks. That's 8 total.

Theyre all from a Honda Foreman. Although one set is from a 500, the other is from a 350. 6 of them are fixed, two are adjustable for preload.

Now to work out the axles/wheel bearings and something that won't break the bank.

I've been looking at car stuff, but it all looks just way too heavy.

The rest of the suspension components arent a big deal to fabricate. Just some work on the lathe and a couple hours with the mig.

Getting the geometry right, well...that's  a different story.....

And at the end of all this work, the damned thing looks like it might end up juuuuust a smidge too wide for the trailer when wearing the supertracks.

That will leave me with either taking the tracks on and off everytime I have to trailer it or widening the trailer a couple inches. If I'm in the ball park, it look like simply taking the upper rail and posts off the trailer and welding them on the outside of the frame rails (instead of on top of them as it is now) will make it all wide enough.

of course, widening the rail will mean I'll have to rework the spring assist as well.

Ugh! It never ends....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on November 09, 2017, 06:36:03 PM
Yes it Never ends !  popcorn
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 10, 2017, 09:56:09 PM
Well, the heck with it.

I'm just going to get it over with. Chop the rail off and reweld it to the outside of the frame rails.

That will give me and additional 3" of useable deck width.

If that ends up not being enough for a springer, then so be it...
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on November 10, 2017, 09:59:11 PM
You never know till you try ?
At least with a Flat Deck you can haul anything !  ;)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 12, 2017, 06:37:05 AM
So i was thinking how it was going to look with the stantions for the rail on the outside of the farme.

Sucky, and possible snagging points.

Then it came to me: I'll put a piece of flatstock down the length of the trailer on each side.

That will give me a rub strip and tie down points the lentgh of the trailer.

:)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on November 12, 2017, 09:09:25 AM
As your seeing it is always good to Step back and look at your options !
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: ascaw on November 12, 2017, 10:53:55 AM
You can never have enough tie down points.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on November 12, 2017, 11:07:52 AM
I put E,Track down both side's of my trailer. With those straps and tie down points it works with anything I want to put on it .
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 16, 2017, 09:11:07 AM
Scored a couple trx500 front drive axles for super cheap. Even if they dont work, its something to start prototyping with for the suspension.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 17, 2017, 11:42:43 AM
So, I've gotten a lot of parts super cheap lately.

Honda TRX500 stuff, Bombardier Quest complete front end (guy wrecked one and just sawsall's the front frame off) and some yamaha grizzy 660 front end stuff.

It's all in under 150 bucks (some if it was free, a "just get it out of the yard" type deal).

So I'm looking at pulling out all the CV axles and hubs. This will be my driveshafts and wheel mounts. The a arms I'll build, as I will the spindle/bearing carriers.

It will be a little bit of a "junkyard dog" with several different types of axles, but I'm ok with that for the price I'm getting them for.

And if it doesn't work out, I'm not out a lot of money.

Side bonus is they should be all parts that can be replaced with off the shelf stuff with fairly minimal modifications.

I'm considering leaving the axle shafts the stock lengths, although I will no doubt have to adjust some of them so they are all at least the same length as the others. It will make the whole rig pretty wide, but I'm not so upset at that thought. It's a lot of logging and fire roads around here. A wider rig is a more stable rig and that can't hurt if using it for SAR and hauling people and casualties around and it's still going to be much smaller than a 4x4 truck so it will be able to squirrel into a lot of small places. Maybe not the places a single quad can go, but again, I'm not too concerned abou that.

I'm going to go with 12" rims and 25" tires. Easy to find them in stores and I'm not concerned with the argo having to be higher to fit them. Making 4 of them fit on each side won't be  big problem, but I will have to kick out the wheelbase a bit. Not enough room between axle centers to fit 25's when it was built for 20/22's. Not a bit deal, I'll just offset the suspensions a bit from the axle centers. Probably shift the front wheel forward, the second set will stay centered, the third will be set back same amount as the front and the rear set back the most. Front and third will only have to shift (looks like) an inch or two, rear 2-4 inches maybe. Not a big deal since I'm going to be running CV shafts and no steering.

More ground clearance and I was already planning a retractable "boarding step" arrangement. Hard enough for me to drag my broken old arse into the argo as it is, needed a better way to get in anyways. Thinking the "steps" will be built into a rear cargo tray and walk from back to the front seats.

Front seats will have fold down rear backs to make stepping forward easier. The whole front seat arrangement is going to be fairly customized anyways. Idea in my head almost looks like the new "huntmaster" seats. Easy to plan for it from the beginning.

Tracks will require a little more thought. Getting the length is as simple as adding links. But now I'm thinking of building manual locking hubs for the middle set of wheels. Same idea as "track tuners", just built to fit my particular custom rig. That might be a bigger mountain to climb than I want and it's a long term plan at best.

Have "sort of" idea for roll over/racks. Found it on a gents web site. Aluminum and light enough not to add a lot of weight up high, has a built in ladder to climb it for better sighting and looks to be able to provide decent roll over protection for all the occupants. Mine will not be built exactly the same, but lots of good ideas there.

And every time I go out to the storage shed, I see my old VF750F interceptor that I haven't ridden in about 8 years (I have a couple other bikes) and can't stop myself from thinking about what it would take to get that "big old" V4 in to my old Argo!

sure; I'd loose the centrifugal clutch arrangement, but I would gain a regular handlebar clutch and multiple gear choices for use in both the Argo high and low.

And from waht I can find, the old Magnum 18 HP isn't a whole lot lighter than the VF750 lump. Around 50 lbs or so.

Hmmm.......100 mph Argo anyone?

Yipe!

;) 

Weight is going to be my biggest enemy here, especially if I want it to still be able to float....
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 17, 2017, 06:05:37 PM
So i was sitting here mulling over the changes to my Argo in my head.


I was thinking about seating arrangements and then it hit me: why not move the fuel tank to the very rear of the compartment and do seating something like these:

(http://www.argoadventure.com/assets/images/Argo%20Parts%20Images/849-90-4.jpg)

(https://sc02.alicdn.com/kf/HTB11i2YJFXXXXXYaXXXq6xXFXXXD/XBH-8X8-2-ATV-Rear-Seat.jpg)

I was also thinking of moving hte battery to the rear and using a bigger batt.

It's not a hunting rig, nor will it haul 1000lb of crap, so I don't need the cargo space. It's going to be a people/dog hauler at best.

Having the fuel and battery back there would help balance out the weight in the rig a bit better.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 17, 2017, 08:28:18 PM
Bah!

Went to pick up the grizzly parts (free stuff) and when i got there the guy said he changed his mind and wanted 200 bucks!

So I gave him some free advice about what he could do with those axles and left.
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: wedge on November 17, 2017, 08:31:02 PM
Some times a good thing is Not a good thing   :(
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 21, 2017, 11:09:34 PM
Well, all sorted for axles and shocks. All honda TRX bits except for two bombardier quest axles/hubs, etc. they actually look like the same untis as the honda stuff. Same length, dimensions, etc.

Looks like I may be able to just use them all in stock form (ie: length).

I will have to machine off the inner stub on the inner tripod joint so i can weld on a flange to mount to a new/shortened  "argo" axle on the tub side.

That means I will need to fabricate the suspension body mounts, A arms and wheel bearing holders/spindles.

Well, the shortened axles for the argo side as well.....;)
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: WFO on November 22, 2017, 08:32:39 AM
your on the way , good job
Title: Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
Post by: SARgo1 on November 25, 2017, 05:23:41 PM
Planning continues.

Looks like I can use two 6006-2rs bearings for the outboard CV hub/carrier. That will save $$ over a Honda specific bearing.

thinking about ditching the Argo bearings in the hull as well. Since the suspension is going to take the deflection (will be bracing up the Argo "go kart" frame), no need for anything other than a simple tapered roller bearing. Just need to find the proper size, then a seal and make a housing if needed. Easy stuff as long as I can find a bearing.

I'm also thinking of using the 2002 Bombardier quest front end components on the very most rear axle set.  I'm thinking of installing the axles, rotors, hubs and knuckles. This would allow me to mount the Quest brakes to the rear most axle and use it as my park brake. My 86 doesn't currently have one, except for a wood block I use to stuff down behind the levers. 

It also would allow me to use the steering tie rod as a fixed link and allow some toe adjustments. Now that I think of it that might also be an option for the other 6 positions too if I use the Honda knuckles there too. It sure would cut down a lot on the fabricating if I use the Honda 4x4 knuckles and just make A-Arms to mount them to the Argo....Hmmmm...more thought needed on that one, but seems to be an intriguing idea.

A simple master cylinder hooked up to a park brake lever and some hard line would do the rest for the rear axle brakes. I've got several automotive ratcheting style handles in my parts piles and that are easily re-purposed. 

I plan to use a high positive offset rim to minimize the overall added width to the whole rig, so the brake components will be inside the rim to help minimize snagging and hang up issues. I can bury lots of the suspension and other parts inside the offset rims as I don't have the traditional turning clearance concern with a skid steer. It just has to clear the vertical movement component.

I'm currently tossing around options for 12" rims. I want something aluminum (to reduce weight) and bead locks would be preferable. I can probably go without beadlocks I have too as air pressure doesn't need to be so low if the Argo is on a suspension. Opens up my tire choices as well since I don't have to worry about too hard a tire carcass. Since I'm making most of everything, I'm not limited to bolt pattern, so I've been looking outside the ATV world for 12" rims and tires. I don't really want to go any larger than 12" rims for weight concerns.

Looked at trailer wheels in 12". Prices are nice an affordable, but the widths available seem to be far to narrow for off road tires. a typical 12" trailer wheel seems to top out at about 4-4.5" width. Too bad really, i quite like the look of these:

(http://www.easternmarine.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/x225/3cc66c15dfb3ce27c2817ed6a679e959/7/9/7949_st.jpg)

Looked at golf cart rims, but they are priced nearly as crazily as ATV aluminum rims. They seem to have a high negative offset as well. Probably for that "deep dish" look old men and kids seem to like on their carts.

Tire options also reduce sharply for off road use above the typical ATV 12" size until you get into the truck sizes, typically 15" and above. That's just way too big and heavy for my little 8x8 Argo.

If I was a betting man, I'd say I'll probably end up with some version of a Honda 4x110 rim option...