Author Topic: Project: ArgoCeptor!  (Read 9184 times)

Offline garretttpe

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #91 on: November 26, 2018, 09:43:40 PM »
Thanks for sharing your build with us, It is always fascinating what people do to these m tpachines

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #90 on: November 26, 2018, 06:58:30 PM »
yanked the carbs today and dropped 'em in the ultrasonic cleaner.

Dropped them back on the bike. Jumped a 12v battery to it and after a few cranks, started right up.

Ran a little ragged until it cleared it's throat and then it settled down into a nice steady idle.

So it's soild. tomorrow I'll pul the engine out of the Honda frame and start working out the details of the engine swap.

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #89 on: November 25, 2018, 05:48:28 PM »
And it begins:



Phase one was a rebuild of worn out parts on the Argo. Turned out to be mostly just chains, seals and bearings. With that coming to a close, its time for phase 2:

Engine swap.

Phase 3 will be some steering/cockpit changes and phase 4 will be 8 wheel independent suspension.

I pulled the ol’ ‘Ceptor in from cold storage and started pulling off the bodywork. It hasn't run in several years, so I wanted to make sure it was still mechanically solid. Ran fine when I put it away last time, so it should be a fairly easy job waking it up.

But it was not to be. Before I bought it many moons ago, the PO had wrecked it. The front end to be precise. In the process of (I use this term VERY loosely)  “repairing” it, they had swapped on an 83-84 fuse panel. Well, this is an 85 and that's a one year part. So they had hacked and spliced the harness, stealing power from places they had no business messing with.

So when I tried to kick it over: nothing. Their bodge had finally failed. I traced it all down and figured out what the issue was, chopped out their mess and ran an adequate sized jumper to get power where it needed to be.

I know the carbs are a mess by now, so a couple squirts of fuel down the throats and kick it over. Coughs a couple times, catches and runs a few seconds and then shuts down. 

That's good enough for today and I push it aside to bring the stuff back in the garage for the night.

Tomorrow I’ll yank the carbs and drop them in the ultrasonic cleaner.  Once I know it runs decently, I’ll yank the engine and start measuring and fitting in the Argo.

:)

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2018, 09:54:16 AM »
Had the Argo out again today. Sunk it in a nice deep slough. Its water tight again, so thats a small victory!

It climbs, sidehills and bushwhacks like a mother.

It was cold, snowing mixed with rain and I was warm and dry bashing through the woods under the soft top.

Yep, I think I’ll keep it. Seems to be just about right for an okder gent like myself who just doesnt want to get wet and muddy anymore. A springer conversion and a better engine should make it just about perfect!

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #87 on: November 17, 2018, 04:53:37 PM »
Did some work on the Argo that it's been needing.

Axle bearings, axle seals, chains, etc.

Did some work on the electrical system. Nothing major, just a quick cleanup. Some of the tires were leaking down, so I fixed that and set the pressures at 2.5 psi.

Fixed the windshield attachment points. The base was loose and the struts were in the wrong place and partially pulled through the body. Tightened up the soft top attachments, pushed it all into the zippered storage pouch and fastened that to it's button snaps.

A few adjustments to other systems like the brakes and then I buttoned 'er up.

A test ride was in order and we got a nice coating of wet sloppy snow last night. Perfect for the Argo with knobby tires. Plenty of grip available, but greasy enough to let it turn fairly easily.

So off I went down the road and into the sand pit at the end of the street. Lots of looks and smiles from guys as I pass by. Argo's aren't very common around here and it's not normal to see one go by.

Ride is much better. Not a noisey as it used to be, which I guess I account to the chains not slapping around and bearings rumbling and growling.  It's still not what could be called "quiet", but it's much more livable. Steering is still skid steer jerky, but it's much more progressive than it was. Probably down to the chains not being as sloppy as they were. It's even easier to keep it straight for longer periods, I'm guessing due to the tire pressures being even and the bearings not being "floppy" anymore.

Even the change in the windshield attachment seems to help, with it not rattling, banging and flopping like it used to.

You know, I actually had fun with the little bugger! the snow seemed to level the ground out a bit so not much bouncing. I was able to wind it out to top speed (which isn't too fast anyways) and still control it just fine. Not much in the way of jarring the old bod.

So I've got a few more chains to change out and some electrical work to finish up. It can only make the ol' Argo stronger and more enjoyable to use than it is now.

Maybe, just maybe, it's going to get a reprieve.....

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #86 on: August 09, 2018, 08:52:59 PM »
So, haven't done much of anything with the Argo lately. We've moved into a new home and all the work associated with that.

I'm looking at the Argo again and I'm kind of at a crossroads.

Keep it or sell it. 

I had thoughts of swapping in the Interceptor engine and making it rear engined (move the transmission and engine to the rear), But that would eliminate all but about 7-10 inches of passenger space at the rear. Sure, I could use the empty engine bay up front for storage/cargo, but we like to take our dogs with us and we need rear space for that. It would also end up being "stacked" like a Max IV, but nearly 48 inches tall at the air filter. That's without a suspension.

I've Also had the Argo out for a spin and as I remember, I really am not liking it's riding manners. The Skid steer is a rough as I remember it (IE: jarring and I'm old and broken), the skid steer is also bordering on dangerous with any speed and rough ground (IE; darts easily), the speed is still slow (no surprise there), it bangs and bounces over everything (I'm old and broken, remember?), it's loud as hell (engine and straight cut gear trans), it's hot, its....well, it's just not fun anymore.

If I keep it, I think I have to go "all in" and make it a heavily customized jobbie: eight wheel steering, suspension, lifted, etc. This likely means loosing the amphibious capability, which actually insn't that a big deal anymore as it will be a trail toy only. It's got knobbies on it, so it doesn't swim worth a damn anyways. I use a 2hp Johnson 2 stroke when I want water travel.

The 8 wheel steering I can work out fairly easily, but it likely means it's going to be more "monster truck like" than Amphib like. IE: make a frame, drop the tub on it and have it look like and argo but that's about it.

Suspension and steerable wheels means I loose the ability to use the supertracks, but I don't use it in snow anymore anyways. I could probably sell the supertracks for a fair bit of coin as they're still in pretty decent shape.

I still don't want a quad, but I don't want to build a 4x4 truck either. Side by side is not something I want either.

Of course, an Argo tub on a custom steering 8x8 chassis would be pretty neat to see on the trails too. Would be quite the conversation piece. That it already has a registration is a bonus. ORV's need a registration here and getting one for a "homebuilt" rig/buggy is a major PITA.

If I did sell it, I'll never get anywhere what I need out of it. It's too old and everyone wants something these days they can jump in and go without doing any work on it. That's not my 86 argo by any means.


Maybe I'll just park it in the back of the garage for a few more months and not think about it for a while...

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #85 on: November 25, 2017, 05:23:41 PM »
Planning continues.

Looks like I can use two 6006-2rs bearings for the outboard CV hub/carrier. That will save $$ over a Honda specific bearing.

thinking about ditching the Argo bearings in the hull as well. Since the suspension is going to take the deflection (will be bracing up the Argo "go kart" frame), no need for anything other than a simple tapered roller bearing. Just need to find the proper size, then a seal and make a housing if needed. Easy stuff as long as I can find a bearing.

I'm also thinking of using the 2002 Bombardier quest front end components on the very most rear axle set.  I'm thinking of installing the axles, rotors, hubs and knuckles. This would allow me to mount the Quest brakes to the rear most axle and use it as my park brake. My 86 doesn't currently have one, except for a wood block I use to stuff down behind the levers. 

It also would allow me to use the steering tie rod as a fixed link and allow some toe adjustments. Now that I think of it that might also be an option for the other 6 positions too if I use the Honda knuckles there too. It sure would cut down a lot on the fabricating if I use the Honda 4x4 knuckles and just make A-Arms to mount them to the Argo....Hmmmm...more thought needed on that one, but seems to be an intriguing idea.

A simple master cylinder hooked up to a park brake lever and some hard line would do the rest for the rear axle brakes. I've got several automotive ratcheting style handles in my parts piles and that are easily re-purposed. 

I plan to use a high positive offset rim to minimize the overall added width to the whole rig, so the brake components will be inside the rim to help minimize snagging and hang up issues. I can bury lots of the suspension and other parts inside the offset rims as I don't have the traditional turning clearance concern with a skid steer. It just has to clear the vertical movement component.

I'm currently tossing around options for 12" rims. I want something aluminum (to reduce weight) and bead locks would be preferable. I can probably go without beadlocks I have too as air pressure doesn't need to be so low if the Argo is on a suspension. Opens up my tire choices as well since I don't have to worry about too hard a tire carcass. Since I'm making most of everything, I'm not limited to bolt pattern, so I've been looking outside the ATV world for 12" rims and tires. I don't really want to go any larger than 12" rims for weight concerns.

Looked at trailer wheels in 12". Prices are nice an affordable, but the widths available seem to be far to narrow for off road tires. a typical 12" trailer wheel seems to top out at about 4-4.5" width. Too bad really, i quite like the look of these:



Looked at golf cart rims, but they are priced nearly as crazily as ATV aluminum rims. They seem to have a high negative offset as well. Probably for that "deep dish" look old men and kids seem to like on their carts.

Tire options also reduce sharply for off road use above the typical ATV 12" size until you get into the truck sizes, typically 15" and above. That's just way too big and heavy for my little 8x8 Argo.

If I was a betting man, I'd say I'll probably end up with some version of a Honda 4x110 rim option...
« Last Edit: November 25, 2017, 05:44:20 PM by SARgo1 »

Offline WFO

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #84 on: November 22, 2017, 08:32:39 AM »
your on the way , good job
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Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #83 on: November 21, 2017, 11:09:34 PM »
Well, all sorted for axles and shocks. All honda TRX bits except for two bombardier quest axles/hubs, etc. they actually look like the same untis as the honda stuff. Same length, dimensions, etc.

Looks like I may be able to just use them all in stock form (ie: length).

I will have to machine off the inner stub on the inner tripod joint so i can weld on a flange to mount to a new/shortened  "argo" axle on the tub side.

That means I will need to fabricate the suspension body mounts, A arms and wheel bearing holders/spindles.

Well, the shortened axles for the argo side as well.....;)

Offline wedge

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #82 on: November 17, 2017, 08:31:02 PM »
Some times a good thing is Not a good thing   :(
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Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #81 on: November 17, 2017, 08:28:18 PM »
Bah!

Went to pick up the grizzly parts (free stuff) and when i got there the guy said he changed his mind and wanted 200 bucks!

So I gave him some free advice about what he could do with those axles and left.

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #80 on: November 17, 2017, 06:05:37 PM »
So i was sitting here mulling over the changes to my Argo in my head.


I was thinking about seating arrangements and then it hit me: why not move the fuel tank to the very rear of the compartment and do seating something like these:





I was also thinking of moving hte battery to the rear and using a bigger batt.

It's not a hunting rig, nor will it haul 1000lb of crap, so I don't need the cargo space. It's going to be a people/dog hauler at best.

Having the fuel and battery back there would help balance out the weight in the rig a bit better.

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #79 on: November 17, 2017, 11:42:43 AM »
So, I've gotten a lot of parts super cheap lately.

Honda TRX500 stuff, Bombardier Quest complete front end (guy wrecked one and just sawsall's the front frame off) and some yamaha grizzy 660 front end stuff.

It's all in under 150 bucks (some if it was free, a "just get it out of the yard" type deal).

So I'm looking at pulling out all the CV axles and hubs. This will be my driveshafts and wheel mounts. The a arms I'll build, as I will the spindle/bearing carriers.

It will be a little bit of a "junkyard dog" with several different types of axles, but I'm ok with that for the price I'm getting them for.

And if it doesn't work out, I'm not out a lot of money.

Side bonus is they should be all parts that can be replaced with off the shelf stuff with fairly minimal modifications.

I'm considering leaving the axle shafts the stock lengths, although I will no doubt have to adjust some of them so they are all at least the same length as the others. It will make the whole rig pretty wide, but I'm not so upset at that thought. It's a lot of logging and fire roads around here. A wider rig is a more stable rig and that can't hurt if using it for SAR and hauling people and casualties around and it's still going to be much smaller than a 4x4 truck so it will be able to squirrel into a lot of small places. Maybe not the places a single quad can go, but again, I'm not too concerned abou that.

I'm going to go with 12" rims and 25" tires. Easy to find them in stores and I'm not concerned with the argo having to be higher to fit them. Making 4 of them fit on each side won't be  big problem, but I will have to kick out the wheelbase a bit. Not enough room between axle centers to fit 25's when it was built for 20/22's. Not a bit deal, I'll just offset the suspensions a bit from the axle centers. Probably shift the front wheel forward, the second set will stay centered, the third will be set back same amount as the front and the rear set back the most. Front and third will only have to shift (looks like) an inch or two, rear 2-4 inches maybe. Not a big deal since I'm going to be running CV shafts and no steering.

More ground clearance and I was already planning a retractable "boarding step" arrangement. Hard enough for me to drag my broken old arse into the argo as it is, needed a better way to get in anyways. Thinking the "steps" will be built into a rear cargo tray and walk from back to the front seats.

Front seats will have fold down rear backs to make stepping forward easier. The whole front seat arrangement is going to be fairly customized anyways. Idea in my head almost looks like the new "huntmaster" seats. Easy to plan for it from the beginning.

Tracks will require a little more thought. Getting the length is as simple as adding links. But now I'm thinking of building manual locking hubs for the middle set of wheels. Same idea as "track tuners", just built to fit my particular custom rig. That might be a bigger mountain to climb than I want and it's a long term plan at best.

Have "sort of" idea for roll over/racks. Found it on a gents web site. Aluminum and light enough not to add a lot of weight up high, has a built in ladder to climb it for better sighting and looks to be able to provide decent roll over protection for all the occupants. Mine will not be built exactly the same, but lots of good ideas there.

And every time I go out to the storage shed, I see my old VF750F interceptor that I haven't ridden in about 8 years (I have a couple other bikes) and can't stop myself from thinking about what it would take to get that "big old" V4 in to my old Argo!

sure; I'd loose the centrifugal clutch arrangement, but I would gain a regular handlebar clutch and multiple gear choices for use in both the Argo high and low.

And from waht I can find, the old Magnum 18 HP isn't a whole lot lighter than the VF750 lump. Around 50 lbs or so.

Hmmm.......100 mph Argo anyone?

Yipe!

;) 

Weight is going to be my biggest enemy here, especially if I want it to still be able to float....
« Last Edit: November 17, 2017, 12:08:37 PM by SARgo1 »

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2017, 09:11:07 AM »
Scored a couple trx500 front drive axles for super cheap. Even if they dont work, its something to start prototyping with for the suspension.

Offline wedge

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #77 on: November 12, 2017, 11:07:52 AM »
I put E,Track down both side's of my trailer. With those straps and tie down points it works with anything I want to put on it .
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