Author Topic: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!  (Read 4320 times)

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2017, 11:36:34 AM »
Hmmm, 2hp seems to do reasonably well:



Not going to win any races, but an Argo is not exactly a drag boat either.

Unless you mean a "high drag boat"!

LOL!

Offline SARgo1

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2017, 11:15:21 AM »
The Bigger the better for speed and moving around Plus the Argo's Float Nose Down due to the engine being up front so you will not have a problem of it sitting Rear down. It may work better as it will flatten the whole rig out !?!?

I was actually thinking about argo's sitting nose down int he water and believe it's probably better for the rig when swimming on the tires. Figure most of the drive is coming from the rear tires since they are further out. With them further out, they're not digging on the "up stroke" which works against forward thrust.

But with an outboard, all bets are off. More weight on the rear means more tire drag, but it may allow the hul to slip through the water easier. I'm thinking more drag is worse than any hydrodynamic advantage of sitting further down in the rear.

It may also be that more HP means more prop speed, which means more cavitation behind the argo in it's disturbed flow.

Maybe I'll just have to wait to get it in the water next year to find out....

Offline wedge

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2017, 11:08:29 AM »
The Bigger the better for speed and moving around Plus the Argo's Float Nose Down due to the engine being up front so you will not have a problem of it sitting Rear down. It may work better as it will flatten the whole rig out !?!?
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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2017, 11:05:14 AM »
So I'm trying to decide which outboard to mount ont eh back.

I've got a 2hp Johnson and an 8 hp Johnson. Both at 2 strokes.

The 2hp weights about 30-35 lbs and has an integrated fuel tank. I run it all day long on a tank using it as a trolling motor on my 12 foot tinny. Even flat out, it's not really what I would call a "powerhouse". It gets my 12 footer moving pretty good, but nothing near plane. But I've recently rebuilt it and converted to solid state ignition so it's damned near a stone axe as far as reliability goes.

The 8 hp is closer to 60 lbs. It needs and external tank. for an 8hp it's fairly impressive. Digs my 12 footer out of the hole and on plane in nothing flat. On plane, it gets the tinny really flying. The 8 HP is solid a s a rock too. Runs on first pull ever time and has never even missed a beat.

The argo is never going to plane, duh right?

:)

I'm trying to decide if double the weight (8hp +tank) is worth it. The argo is only ever going to move so fast, under 5 mph I'm figuring at best due to the tire drag. plus, there's the inconvenience of having to drag around a separate fuel tank with the 8hp.

Neither are long shaft motors. But I'm planning a scissoring mount to get it nice and low.

Opinions?

I won't be getting them out on the water any time soon so I can't give 'em both a try right now. The Argo is torn apart to rectify the PO's electrical sins and upgrade the wiring.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2017, 11:10:05 AM by SARgo1 »

Offline wedge

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 08:59:30 PM »
One step at a time Brother !!
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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 08:54:50 PM »
Little more fiddling with the carb and throttle cable today. Runs slick now.

The clutch spacer is doing its job just fine. No drive at idle and trans shifts easy now, even with the idle turned up a touch to make it a touch smoother. There is just a little too much hesitation before drive engagement for my liking. Works fine, just a little delay. I may spin up a half sized spacer compared to the one in there now and see if it works a little better for me.

That all done, i started digging into the wiring. What a freaking mess! 

Once again, the PO was well meaning but he was no better an electrician than he was a mechanic. Wire splices, twisted together ends, butt connectors, wire taps, wires all over and taped over doubled up for length, and vinyl tape everywhere. Some spots that I took the tape apart, water actually ran out!

The automatic bildge pump he thought didnt work turned out to be a crap wiring job combined with hooking up the auto/manual switch wrong. I pulled the bildge pump out, opened it up, cleaned it out and tested it out on a battery. Worked perect. Turning to the switch assembly revealed incorrect wiring and the switch was wired to run a negative switch scheme. The pump didnt like that and none of thei indicator leds worked. I tore it apart and rewired it to switched positive and fixed the led indicators. Test run showed eveything working perfectly.

One of the old headlight/floodlights burned out. I dont think i'm going to bother replacing the lamp though. I'm just going to wait and replace them both with led units instead. When I get around to that, I'll prob toss on a couple red led tail lights as well since it doesnt have any at all right now and you he d them to run after dark here on the trails.

Tomorrow, i'll look at redoing the entire under hood/ dash wiring. I'm going to swap all the crap/corroded barrel connectors for delphi weather tight connectors and probably do a few things like add a power distribution block/busbar. I plan to add a fuse box also and the only things i can see that even remotely look like fuses are a couple in line glass fuse holders. I can do much better than that.

I am also supposed to get a decent back pay check in the next month or two. Should be enough to buy a new set of tires that will swim. Maybe enough for the chains and a few other bits as well.

:)
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 09:10:25 PM by SARgo1 »

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2017, 09:23:39 PM »
Pulled the driver clutch apart today. Rusty and dry as a popcorn fart.

Sanded it down (not the sheaves, just the covers) and shot it with a coat of rustileum.

Everything got a good shot of brake clean and then the moving parts got a good graphite lube.

Then i spun out an 11/32 spacer for the clutch spring on the lathe.

Put the driver back together and popped it back on to the crankshaft.

Then i took the broken engine shrouds and hit them with the mig. Not the prettiest job, but its solid again.

Put the muffler and assorted other bits back on and fired it up.

Just about perfect!

Now the belt doesnt move at idle (or barely turns) and shifting is as smooth as you can expect on an argo box. Throttles up and grabs just fine.

Rest of the engine went back together and then it started funny throttle behavior as soon as i would put the air filter on. The throttl would hang when  blipped.  But it wouldnt hang if i lifted the air filter off. Chased my tail on that one a bit and finally discovered when i pushed down the filter, the throttle would hang. Turns out the governor arm was just rubbing on the bottom of the air cleaner housing. I went theough thoughts of clearancing the housing and machining up spacers, then i realized the governor arm is just stamped sheet metal. I gave it a few mm of downward bend and problem solved

I celebrated by buying a new brake duct. Mine is split, one end has ripped wide open and hanging. I also ordered an hourmeter that does tach, clock and programable maint reminders. Useful when an argo calls for maint at the 30 hr mark.

Im thinking if we're in to the new house this winter i may just strip it down to the frwme and do a complete overhaul. Have to wait and see on that one though. I'd do it at our current house but I don't have the garage space. Single car garage full of my tools, the mustang and two motorcycles just doesnt leave much room! :)

Getting there. Slowly, but surely.....
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 05:33:48 AM by SARgo1 »

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2017, 09:34:12 PM »
So it slowly gets better and better.

Someone had messed with the governer, so I reset that to factory.

With the idle cranked down, i was able to get a more accurate setting on the slow jet which has improved idle.

Came out the next morning and started it up and the idle and throttle went all weird. After a bit of sniffing around, i discovered the throttle cable had somehow cocked sideways and kinked inside the throttle housing. A little bending and reshaping put it back to a sericeable state. A good lube inside the housing and with my pressure cable lube attachement made everthing work better than before and idle/throttle was back to normal.

Tomorrow I'll pull the driver clutch off and see if shimming the spring will help with the drag at idle. The clutch opens fully at a stop, but closes up just a bit too much at any stage speed above stop. I'm thinking the spring has just fatigued a bit after 30 years. I'll replace it once I can source a new one.

I ordered a brace of green switches for the dash for accesories. Then a tach/hourmeter was ordered up.

Last thing was a call to the local john deer place to see if they stocked roller chain. They only had single, but could order double. 65 bucks plus tax for a 10' length. Not too bad. I could order cheaper online, but shipping pushes it up nearly twice the cost. I'll order up two at a time to spread the cost over a couple months, eventually replacing them all. First two will do the rear wheels, wich have the worst sag (chains hit the cross supports).

Also did some thinking. Im going to use 1 1/4 aluminum angle and 3" flat aluminum and weld up a channel to go around the whole rubber strip, bending and fitting as nessesary. The angle will go on the side and undeneath, the flat will go on top. This will give me the reinforcement for the tube and rub strip while also giving me a "mud lip"  that will cover the tires. I'll make it  in front, rear and side pieces and will be bolted through the rivet holes for the nody halves. That will make it solid, help with sag, be removeable and give me a base to build the front brush guard, rear carrying tray and attach the wider rear mudflaps.

:)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 09:39:14 PM by SARgo1 »

Offline wedge

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Re: 1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2017, 09:55:57 AM »
Great Intro on who you are what your into !  ;)
I am sure you will get all the help and info you will be needing rite here that's for sure.
Please keep us posted on you work as it looks like you have a good platform to build off of !  popcorn
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1986 Conquest 8x8 build up for SAR!
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2017, 10:49:18 PM »
Howdy. I'm new to Argo's and AATV's in general. Actually, I've only had one for a week or so now.

Some background;

I'm military, RCAF. I'm Search and rescue, flying the Cormorant Helo (flight engineer):



But after 28 years, I'm just too beaten up and broken to continue. It's a young man's game and I'm....errr.....not....anymore.

;)

Since I can't carry on, I'm being medically released from the military. No regrets. I've done and seen things most people will never even have a concept of. My pension and the medical release "parachute" is also pretty good.

But SAR isn't something you just " stop". It gets in the blood. That others may live isn't just an motto, it's a way of life. So even though I won't be Helo SAR, I'm planning to join the provincial Ground Search team once I'm out. It's all volunteer and poorly funded. As in, it's not.

My problem is my injuries mean I can't traverse uneven ground for very far. Not good for a ground search team member.

Enter: the Argo (SARgo? LOL!)

The Argo will be my legs.

I wanted an 8x8 for the size it offers over a 6x6 (carrying gear, searchers, casualties, etc), Argo because it's fairly mainstream for these rigs (get parts, accessories, etc without having to fire up the welder or lathe every time something breaks)  and tracks because Nova Scotia is somewhere around 50-75% rivers, lakes and bog/swamp/muck. That's also why a quad or side by side wouldn't be a great choice for me either, I need amphibious for SAR around here.

I looked at new and damned near had a stroke right then and there! 25-35 grand CAD! Nope,that's not going to happen. Sure was pretty though....

So it had to be used. But they're not common around these parts and just plain hard to come by used. Those do have 'em, aren't selling.

I got lucky and came across an 86 8x8. Came with windshield,  supertracks and a soft top. It's a Conquest, so hyd brakes and the old Kohler Magnum 18 hp. Gent wanted 4500 CAD:







It's used but not (particularly) abused.

Gent was a DNR guy so he took care of it as best he could for the 10 years he owned it. But he sure wasn't a mechanic. He had replaced one caliper and the lever was adjusted close up to the firewall. The other lever was a good 4-6" pull further to get it to grab. The carb was gummed up and it had to run with choke. The tires are some kind of knobby tire by Kenda, Dominator IIRC:



The tracks were loose as....well, insert favorite curse word here. I also had to pull the wheels off each side to get the tracks off as the trailer was only 62" wide. It all made driving it on the trailer a fair bit of "fun".

No rear floor. Gent had a couple pieces of plywood in there. I wasn't worried about that as a couple welded spacers to the rear frame and a sheet of 1/8" 5052 aluminum (attached with Dzeus fasteners) would make a nice strong floor. Flat floor is preferred anyways as my wife trains tracking dogs and this will give them a good surface after I bond some rubber covering to it.

I pointed out a few things, hemmed and hawed a bit and then my missus played the "I don't want to buy this piece of junk" game. We ended up at 3 grand.

That's pretty good around these parts for a running, intact 8x8.

I took it directly to the cottage. First thing was a quick burn down the road. Ran like crap. Steered like crap. I goosed it wide open and it caught after a few seconds. No suspension and aired up tires (to squeeze it on the trailer) quickly became a bad combination on a few woops in the road. it took a bad bounce, things started to go really wrong really fast and I went for a handful of brakes. Well, one side grabbed first (still out of adjustment) and it jerked sideways, I then backed off the brakes trying to regain control and it all just made things even worse. We shot off into the trees and I ended up nose in against a big pine. I was laughing my head off, half happy I was still alive and half terrified of what just happened. Trip back to the cottage was decidedly slower and more cautious.

So, first off it was adjusting the brake/steering levers. I evened them out and steering became much easier and the whole rig became much more controllable as I didn't have to remember to pull one lever first when I wanted to stop. Then the carb came apart and got a good going through. Reinstalled and adjusted, the old Kohler now worked great. No more surging, responds to throttle. It's not perfect, but it's getting there.

Then I drove it down to the harbor. Yep, those tires don't swim worth a damn. Not a big surprise. They also make it a bear to turn on land, as the knobs just dig in and don't skid well at all. Gravel is ok, sod just gets ripped out and chunks go flying. I get it in deep enough to check wheel seals. Yup, most are leaking. Not a surprise and I expected it on a rig this old. But it's coming in damned fast up front somewhere. The skidplate (Argo's "second tub" arrangement) looks intact, but now I'm hoping the hull behind it is good and there's just a hub gasket gone really bad up front. Can't see exactly where it's coming in with the drivetrain installed. I'll have to check that out a little closer later. The "auto" bilge pump is dead, but the manual one he installed pumps it out and has no problems pumping the hull dry in a few seconds.

Back up to the yard and I degrease/clean the thing several times:







and can now get a good look at double chains and sprockets (and the engine/transmission). Chains are stretched, but again, I expected that. Sprockets may be OK, have to get the chains off to know for sure. Looks like the idler sprockets are toast. Points on every tooth.

So, I've got some basic work to do. I expected most of it with a well used unit and nothing I can't handle. I ordered up some half links for the supertracks and that should (hopefully) take up the looseness. I took out one full link and it's too tight to get together, but it looks like a half link will be just about right to get my 3 odd inches of sag on the tracks from the 6-8" of sag there is now.

Once the maintenance is all addressed I'll be on to a SAR build up.

I'm looking at building racks, seats, pushbars and the like. I've got a 3500lb winch to install, which will be on a receiver type arrangement (connected to the frame winch bracket0 so I can use it front and rear. My Lincoln 180 will get a decent workout on all that stuff. Some will be aluminum, some will be steel. Smart use of each will keep the weight down. That's important for a SAR rig where lots of rescue/first aid gear goes in.

Of course, survival gear will be on board too. Military is good at making sure you know what to bring in the woods and how to use it.

;)

I'm also wanting to build it into a springer. I've got several reasons for that:

1. Looks like a fun project
2. It will be gentler to my beat up old bod
3. Looks to be fun to use when I just want to off road, and
4. when you've got someone with broken bones and such on board, you want the ride as smooth as possible.

Springer is a long range project though.

I'm not sure how well tracks will work with a springer though. Tracks is a must have and 4-6 feet of snow is common here in winter and it hangs around in the woods well into spring, sometimes summer.

Well, that's where it currently sits. More as I get into it.

:)
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 11:25:29 PM by SARgo1 »